So the other day while I was bored I started thinking about different things that would make the game different, and one of those is changing the way the assault phase works.To often are some armies squashed in the assault phase by other armies who are built up around getting up close and personal and then will just sweep units left and right.
So here are a couple things that I'd like to see changed.
Incoming Charge Shots: The unit being charged may give up all close combat attacks and instead fire all of there weapons at the one unit that is charging them, these attacks are made after the assault has been declared but before assault moves are made. The defending unit counts as moving for purposes of shooting weapons.
What would this do, well it would help protect those gunline armies with short range weapons, cough cough eldar guardians cough, who can be charged before there weapons are ever in range of the enemy.
It would also give some units the chance to kill units that otherwise would be impossible to be killed in CC, such as dreadnaughts, MCs and others.
What would this do to assaulters, well it would definantly hurt them quite a bit, but it would make picking your targets quite a bit more important but I think it will also help balance it. To often do I see a unit shoot into a unit before they charge, soften them up and then assault and wipe them out receiving double the attacks the other unit did that turn.
Grenades: These things need to be revamped, why is it I can use grenades on Vehicles but not on MCs, MCs should be getting hurt just as much and often times it's grenades that are the only thing that might hurt an MC. So here are my thoughts on them;
Any model armed with grenades may choose to get a single attack with a grenade hitting with WS vs WS. These models give up there normal attack characteristics.
Frag - Str 4 AP 5 small blast, scatters as usual, may only be used in First Round of Combat before units have made assault moves.
Krak - Str 8 AP 3
Melta - Str 8 AP 1 Causes ID
Defenders who are attacked by grenades in the first round of combat may take cover saves if in or behind cover, or the Attack had to make a Dangerous Terrain Test.
Attackers who are attacked by grenades in the first round of combat may not take cover saves as they are too busy trying to get at the enemy.
Now I know these aren't the only grenades out there but this gives a general idea of what I would like to see happen to the Assault Phase. Now the grenades will definantly favor certain armies, ie Space Marines who have grenades on everyone but other armies also have grenades or may use there weapons and I think this will make quite a difference in game play.
Maybe one of these days I'll get to play a test game with these rules and balance it out, for now what do you guys think?
-CKR
Re: "Incoming Charge Shots" - add "Pass a Leadership test first" and I'm all for it. The test representing both the fluffy need to have the courage to continue firing rather than prepare for the assault as well as the system need to require a roll by default so that some armies and wargear configurations can do so without the roll. For example, "bayonets" allows Guard to dispense with the Leadership test (the Dark Eldar likewise have similar weaponry bits that would dispense with the roll). Models with Pistol can also fire without the roll.
ReplyDeleteRe: Grenades - Conceptually sounds solid to me. I've never understood why 40K Grenades are represented with the rules that they are. I can only assume they felt it "slowed the game too much" or something. However giving up ones own assault attacks seems to be a good trade off.
The Grenades idea is okay, but a little over complex.
ReplyDeleteOne option is to just combine it with the prior. Allow a unit being assaulted to respond with Grenades. One shooting attack.
Another idea that might be nice is allowing Grenades, but with equal chance of hurting yourself too...
The shoot into assaulting units idea might have to be tweaked a bit as it allows shooty units to fire twice- do they suddenly get to reload faster in a much tenser situation?
ReplyDeleteI would add another restriction- if they didn't shoot during their previous turn they count as 'prepared' for a charge. I would also hear an argument that as long as they were firing at the chargin unit the turn before they can react with volleys of lasfire.
As for grenades- way too powerful if can be used against normal infantry and really tilts the favor of battle to assaulting. Think about it- krak grenades suddenly grant everyone AP 3 powerfists? That strike before initiative values? Melta bombs, a 5 pt upgrade, can down ANYTHING lickety-split? Not to mention that half the time you wouldn't even be able to throw frag grenades as the blast marker would have to be placed over your own troops (which is verboten).
For grenades to work like that there would have to be a comprehensive update of all of the codices to reflect it. Though, it might be fun (and bloody!) to try out once or twice...
Against MCs, sure. Even give me the walker rules, i.e. hit on a 6 with a single attack. As long as I get my krak/meltabombs on my vets into combat I am golden.
What Matt said plus "Treat the firing unit as if it moved." Otherwise, you'll never see a Devastator squad get assaulted again.
ReplyDeleteI have felt that there should also be some rules for specific armies to allow shooting INTO close combat. Perhaps a Commissar order, or the like. Misses are counted as hits on friendly models, all other shooting/damage rules apply.
ReplyDeletenice photo by the way *Grin*
@Matt - Yeah I agree, having a LD test before hand would probably be pretty good.
ReplyDelete@Dverning - Hehe... I like grenades hurting yourself, how bout for ever miss with a grenade on a 4+ your unit get's hurt. That way it isn't a straight 50/50 chance, first you have to miss, then you have to go oh grab lol.
@Max - Well I don't think it is unlikely that they shoot more then once, and I've never seen ammo in the game, most of the time it's all one round of ammunition right, it's not like everyone is firing an entire clip each round.
Well not being able to throw the frag grenades is kind of the point, because it would be right there and you could hurt yourself.
As for Hitting MCs I think that it is kinda week forcing people to roll a 6 with grenades, I think it should be WS all around.
@Greg - Already had that up there ;)
@Mad Pat - All misses hit friendly models? I was thinking shooting attacks would just be in the first round of combat and you'd have to give up your CC attacks, and then after that it's all up to the knife in your hand or the butt of your rifle.
Thanks for the Comments :D
-CKR
Well my comment was about a unit external to the combat, so a squad charges into another squad who has friends near by. The commissar orders the third squad to fire into the close combat occupied by the other two. All hits are applied to the "enemy" force, all misses are applied to the "friendly" force. Resolve as normal.
ReplyDeleteHaha, well that would be more shooting face :D And yeah that would be pretty interesting. I would be all for it, can't tell you how many times I've had units get tied up with a Dread or something and wish I could've just melted it lol.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I must have missed the part about heavies not shooting. Even so, I can't say I really like these modification. One thing about it, it would make Space Wolves freaking scary. As a Space Wolf player, on my turn I shoot you in the face. On your turn, you better shoot back. If you assault me, I shoot you in the face and then I enjoy my Counter-Assault. That's ugly. I think in the end this makes the game too shooty and I really feel like the game is just starting to have pretty good balance between shooting and assault.
ReplyDeleteBut that's me... I like my close combat. ;) I also have a Daemon army and BELIEVE me, we have enough problems as it is. This would simply make a Khorne army have absolutely no chance of winning. Ever.
Hey Greg,
ReplyDeleteNo Problem, I usually miss some stuff while reading too... But SWs wouldn't get there attacks in the first round of combat if they decided to shoot. The point of being able to shoot at assaulters is that you give up your CC attacks for the first round of combat. So they would have to decide if they wanted to counter-charge or if they wanted to shoot. Sometimes one is better then the other but they wouldn't get both.
I can see how this would be a huge problem for daemons, but then I think there are some fixes that should be made with them anyways, maybe deepstrike assaults, or something along those lines ;)
-CKR